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psyko says,
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FortDa thinks,
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the reading - it seems to me to be the same questions about space, time, subjectivity
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that there are some definite consistencies in the texts, in that they seem to desire an opening of sorts on the questions of space, time, subject"
wonders if you did read the grosz..I'd be interested in hearing your response to her reading of Lacan
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"I have read Groz - she knows Lacan very well"
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"In general, though, I don't think I was too impressed with Grosz, in that she seems to summarize a lot with necessarily advancing an argument"
also thought that in her discussion of space, there was a lot missing in re: Cartesian space
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"ok - it is some short writings she is presenting"
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liked the summary of Merleuz-Ponty, tho, since I'm not too familiar with him
points to what seemed like a slippery slope tho, p 93 at the top:
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"i am reading"
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"For Merlezu-Ponty, the subject's relation to its own body provides it with basic spatil concepts by which it can reflect on its position. Form and size, direction, centeredness (centricity), location, dimension, and orientation are derived from perceptual relations..."
"These are not conceptual impositions on space, but our ways of living as bodies in space. They derive from the particular relations the subject has to objects and events..."
"I see her trying to move away from Kant (conceptual impositions) but I'm not sure where these "particular relations" come from"
asks, "doesn't it seem that she's making these relations a priori *kinds* (categories) of relations?"
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thinking
"perhaps - she does not say so"
"why do you think it implies apriori"
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"another moment: and perhaps this is because this essay may be earlier in her writing. She at one point writes, "as representations of subjectivity changed, so too did representations of space and time. If space is the exteriority of the subject and time its interiority, then the ways this exteriority and interiority are theorized will effect notions of space and time."
"Note that her language of interiority and exteriority is already spatialized"
"to answer your question tho..."
"she seems to imply that dimension and orientation "exist" not as conceptual arrangements but as pre-given spatial arrangements..."
"unless I'm misreading...and she is simply pointing out this view in Merleau-Ponty"
thinks Grosz is best in discussing interior/exterior on p. 104 in re a kind of mobius strip...
"She writes: "I have been exploring how the subject's exterior is psychically constructed; and conversely, how the processesof social inscription of the body's surface construct a psychical interior"
"The kind of folding onto itself of inside/outside seems to be an important contributution to our disucssion..."
"the both implicate the other, that both posit the other"
"we might also describe it in dialectical terms, I guess"
"tho not a hegelian dialectic"
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asks, "folding - is the concept og guattary?"
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thinks this later statement of an enfolded interior/exterior is a reworking of her ealier writing on Lacan
"enfolding by way of Delezue, I would say"
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"ok"
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"altho "envagination shows up in derrida et al."
asks, "cixous, I think?"
"What about that Callois stuff. Did that strike you as wacky?"
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asks, "and how do you understand this folding?"
"Callois is also about how the outside becomes part of the organisme"
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"it's a way to recognize two positions as poles, sort of"
"rather than abandoning interior/exterior for example, they become poles between which bodies pass"
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nods
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thinks the Derridean fold is a little different: a way of blurring where inside ends and outside begins
"aporetic boundary between the two"
"about callois, tho...were you familiar with him? I'm curious always how well received certain ideas are within psychoanalyitcal practice."
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"yes - Lacan is discussing Callois in relation to identification "
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nods, listens
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"i dont remember which seminar - i have moved to an other town - and left must of my books at home"
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nods
asks, "any question about the bodies-cities section?"
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"and are a bit confused :)"
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thought it pretty striaght-forward, ending with a good question for us to consider
smiles
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smiles
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"She points to urbanism as a kind of study of "how differnt cities, differnt socio-cultural environments actively produce the bodies of their inhabitants""
"this seems to be a good place for discussion...not just of "electronic cities (which she refers to on p 110), but of other socio-cultural environmets"
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asks, "yes - and so it is the chora - it reminds me of chaosmosis - can you explain the difference? "
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"for example: certain US cities have regained an appeal, partiuclarly among middle-class professionals. The suburbs are losing residents to urban centers"
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"just like in Norway"
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felt probably least at home (pun pun) in the chora chapter since I have not read the kristeva material
asks, "really? I snorway expereincing the same "reverse migration"?"
thought Grosz's main point was to return the feminine to chora, from whence it had been driven away
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"yes - the middleclass is figthing for the old buildings in the cities"
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wonders if this relation of bodies to urban space is anything "new" tho
"or just a recolonization of "impoverished zones""
"there are definite racial undertones to the flight in the 1950s & 1960s to the suburbs in America"
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"in Norway the ideology have been in favor of the countryside for many years"
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"and those patterns are simply reversing to some degree"
nods, thinks that "countryside" and suburb are two very different spaces ;>
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"sure"
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meant to read heidegger on dwelling/building/thinking...I think that would be an interesting context for Grosz
also thinks that Grosz should know about Lebbeus Woods, but she makes no mention of him
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asks, "where do I find Heideggers essay?"
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tries to remember the title..it's not in basic writings...
"It's in Poetry, Language...something like that?"
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"ok"
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"The essay is called "Building, Dwelling, Thinking"
goes to get it...
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"ok"
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"The Englishi title is _Poetry, Language, Thought_"
"it has some of that great pseudo-etymology in it ;>"
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"ok - my new library is not very good"
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nods
"harper and roe, 1971 is the edition I have"
thinks that may be it for me this week...
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